by Mats Antonissen // Dec. 20, 2024
Since 2000, the society Freunde der Nationalgalerie has been awarding a bi-annual prize to a young contemporary artist working in Berlin. This year’s Preis der Nationalgalerie was, for the very first time, awarded to not one but four artists active in Germany’s capital. Dan Lie—whose work includes illustrations and expansive installations—was one of the artists recognized with the 2024 prize.
In their work, Lie visualizes natural cycles of transformation and mutual dependence within ecological exchange, and non-human beings—such as bacteria, fungi, plants and minerals—are their main protagonists. Lie’s practice addresses the coexistence of different beings and their continuous participation in the processes of life, death and decomposition. We sat down with the artist to talk about the award, their piece ‘The Reek’ and their artistic trajectory leading up to this moment.
Dan Lie in collaboration with non-humans: ‘The Reek,’ 2024, site-specific Installation, Preis der Nationalgalerie 2024, Hamburger Bahnhof // Courtesy Dan Lie, © Jacopo La Forgia
Mats Antonissen: The winners of this year’s Preis der Nationalgalerie were asked to produce new works for a group exhibition. At the end of the show, Hamburger Bahnhof will acquire each piece for its collection. What motivated you to make an installation built from organic material that disintegrates over time, impossible to conserve or collect? Did you conceive of ‘The Reek’ in response to the award?
Dan Lie: I was quite honored to receive this award. I was especially glad that it is shared, so that there was no competition involved in making the work. The idea of artistic competition saddens me. I understood that exhibiting at an institution like Hamburger Bahnhof meant an influx of people from all over, so I wanted to show the best of my practice. I’ve been developing my research and installations for over 13 years. Pivoting to more preservable or purchasable art just because of the prize, would have been unfaithful to what I do. I am, however, realistic, and I do think about my relationship to the market. But it’s not a total novelty what I do. There are many recent examples of institutions “collecting” more ephemeral art, like the case of Tate acquiring the work of artist Edgar Calel.
‘The Reek’ takes inspiration from an archeological artifact in the collection of the Neues Museum. I’ve been going there regularly for the last two years and they have this strange piece from the Bronze Era that seduced me. It’s this hollow oak tree trunk, about a meter-and-a-half long and filled with small ceramic vessels. It was dug up in Berlin-Mitte and the museum’s archeologist explained to me that it served as a wishing well, while the vessels were offerings.
There’s many ways to interpret that, but I’m interested in archeology of the Bronze Age mostly because of the absence of human representation in its artefacts. Humanity wasn’t a protagonist yet, and my work deals a lot with finding other-than-human protagonists for the planet. I’ve been thinking about, like, what if we live in the planet of the flies? They outnumber us, so it’s possible. Or what if we live on the planet of the trees? Or the dogs? And so on.
Dan Lie in collaboration with non-humans: ‘The Reek,’ 2024, site-specific Installation, Preis der Nationalgalerie 2024, Hamburger Bahnhof // Courtesy Dan Lie, © Jacopo La Forgia
MA: Can you talk about what led you to first adopt the medium of site-specific installations and elaborate on what it means to you today?
DL: For many years, I worked nomadically. I used to be part of a collective that threw low-budget parties at unconventional spaces, where I was in charge of scenography. That was kind of like a school of installation for me. I’m interested in connecting to the story of the space, allowing the work to connect to its architecture, which in turn can generate conversations.
I have a few rules I follow. I never create new structures for the work or alter the space the installation is made in. Everything you see at Hamburger Bahhof is hanging from the original structure. We didn’t put a single nail in the wall. There’s also various ways in which my installations are responding to the site. There’s the architecture, of course. Making an installation at Hamburger Bahnhof was actually quite a challenge, because I don’t usually create in white cubes or traditional galleries. In the past, I’ve done installations in an abandoned school, a barn and a power plant.
When I have more time, I talk to locals and research the culture. Then the project is developed through this dialogue. I’m also interested in making visible in my installations organisms that we tend to overlook. The vessels I include in my work, I fill with liquid organic matter that attracts all types of organisms, which then inhabit the space and reproduce. The site becomes their home and they become perceptible slowly, whether that’s through smell, mould, fermentation or mushrooms. What ultimately links all these approaches, is my interest in how the installations connect and communicate with those who see it. I want everyone who attends the exhibition to be able to relate in their own way, across culture, language, class.
Dan Lie: ‘Untitled,’ 2024 // Photo by Nick Ash
MA: Photographs from the exhibition’s opening in June show a version of ‘The Reek’ that’s very different from when I saw the piece last week. How do you feel about the relationship between photography and your installations? Where does the difference between the original piece and its documentation lie?
DL: For me, documentation is very important since the work is ephemeral. But I consider documentation to be a type of testimony. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about grieving. Once somebody or a whole ecosystem dies, we lose their physical presence. What lingers from the person, animal, system, is that we had a connection to them. We have photographs of them, video, audio, messages, letters, memories. These are all testimonies, and I tend to think of documentation of my art in the same way. But experiencing the installation remains the starting point to developing a relationship to the work.
Dan Lie: ‘Remains Remembering,’ 2024, installation view at Barbara Wien // Courtesy of the artist and Barbara Wien, Berlin
MA: Your work has an easily recognizable color palette of mostly yellows and browns. Did you set out to achieve this effect or is it the result of your working method?
DL: I began making these installations with flowers and sprouts. They all looked very bright initially. But then, after a few months, of course, they all turn beige-brown. I wanted to bring back color into the pieces, but stick to my principles at the same time. It’s important for me that all the materials I work with can degrade over time and are easy to come by. I began experimenting with materials I could find at the grocery store. I tried making natural dyes with different spices. I settled on turmeric, which makes for a bright yellow dye. I used it to paint cloths, which I then put in the sun to dry. The color had completely vanished when I picked them back up. It had lost its saturation by being exposed to light, and this transient quality fascinated me.
So that’s how my relationship to the color yellow began; by experiment instead of meaning. After that, of course, comes the possibility of interpretation. Different people attribute different meanings to it. When I exhibited in Southeast Asia, for example, they interpreted yellow as a symbol for death, which is something that was new to me. I prefer keeping things open. I intentionally don’t tell anyone what to think or feel about my installations. But I’m very interested in listening to others’ experiences of my art instead.
Artist Info
Exhibition Info
Hamburger Bahnhof
Group Show: ‘Preis der Nationalgalerie 2024’
Exhibition: June 7, 2024-Jan. 5, 2025
smb.museum
Invalidenstraße 50, 10557 Berlin, click here for map
